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Alright, the game starts in Clock Town. You can't leave as Deku Link, because you're a child. You can leave as Goron Link and Zora Link because you're an adult. You can leave as Normal Link...because you have a sword. But, that raises two Headscratchers: First, how does Kafei leave, if he's a child and has no dangerous weapon? Second, When you soar to Snowpeak, leave your sword to get worked on, go back to Clock Town, and try leaving, the guard will let you through after you talk to him because you have a sword…but you don't, it's at the smithy's.
The guards have probably met Kafei before in adult form, and (if memory serves) you're still wearing the sheath.
You're still wearing the sword belt. The sheath is absent.
The guards recognized you as the kid they gave permission to leave the city? Link somehow explains to them that he is quite capable of defending himself? I don't know.
He's still got his big-ass metal shield that deflects most every attack.
Kafei was pretty sneaky. He practically disappeared after being turned into a child.
You can use a glitch in the game to get past the guards as Deku Link (align yourself up with the wall, face away from the guard, press Z and walk backwards… you should push away the guard. Maybe Kafei got out the same way. ;)
On a related note, how do Kafei and Sakon reach the hideout without each of them having their own Hookshot and Garo Mask?
Or a horse?
Sakon might have stolen the appropriate stuff from some unfortunate people. Maybe. Besides, it's his hideout, so maybe he has the privilege of knowing some way there that we don't get to see. No idea for Kafei, though.
Both probably hopped the fences and climbed the wall. Just because Link can't do it doesn't mean others can't.
The guards probably ignore Kafei for the same reason they let Sakon slip by after blatantly mugging an old woman right in front of them.
The guards are just racist to Dekus. I mean, look at how the Bombers treat Deku Link, “NO SCRUBS!”.
Why do people seem to think that Romani was lobotomized? Sure she doesn't seem to recognize you if you talk to her after failing to stop the “aliens”, but it seems more to me like she suffered a hugeHeroic BSOD. :/ Jeez, why do people have to think the worst case scenario for everything?
This is a 7+ or so game where the a moon with a terrifying face is about to end the world, an Eldritch Abomination with a child's mind is running around making everyone's life a misery in the three days they have left, and a number of named sentient characters die on-screen, one of whom you can kill yourself. Why wouldn't we assume the worst?
Well, I talked about this before and from what I found out, if Romani wasn't lobotomized, she must have gotten something more drastic than a simple “WTF are you doing in our ship!? immediate booting traumatized, BSOD-ing Romani overboard”
Not to mention, the music playing at that part sounds vaguely other-worldly, and the tractor-beam-esque abduction of Romani certainly calls aliens to mind. Then there's the fact that unlike “regular” monsters, no one knows anything about Them (just look at their name!).
I'd like to add that Cremia quotes Romani calling Them “ghosts” when you're helping defend her milk jugs.
Anyone with a knowledge of extraterrestrials will tell you that “They” look exactly like the Flatwoods Monster.
Okay, in Majora's Mask, Link falls through a warp, and ends up in Termina. Note that he FALLS through, not WALKS through. So, I ask you this. HOW did he get BACK to Hyrule?
He climbed.
The whole opening forest part, including the fall, is still part of Hyrule- note that it doesn't make much sense for it to be beneath Clock Town. Link doesn't actually get to Termina until he goes through the twisted corridor part. There's likely a different path to take to get back to Kokiri Forest/the Lost Woods that the game doesn't show you.
We don't actually know if Termina is a real world, a dream world, a parallel universe, etc. We also don't even know if Link manages to get back to Hyrule in the end.
IF it is, then how could there be a rock sirloin from Dodongo's Cavern? Dodongo's Cavern is in Hyrule!
Assuming that Link made the journey to Termina from Hyrule AND vice versa, it's not impossible that other people/objects could, as well. Plus, just because there's a Dodongo's Cavern in Hyrule doesn't necessarily mean that there can't be one in Termina. Also, I may be wrong but I believe the Goron calls it “Dodongo Cavern” in Majora's Mask. So there's that, too.
I could be mistaken, but don't they say that The Hero of Time is TP Link's ancestor? Wouldn't he have had to made it back to Hyrule to be someone's ancestor?
It never actually says that they're related. The implication is there, but it's only that: implied.
I thought that he was TWW Link's ancestor, and even that was only implied (the family shield was OoT Link's, but they could have gotten it some other way) and the TP Link was just some random dude. In the TWW timeline Ganondorf gets defeated by an adult OoT Link, while TP takes place in the timeline where Link is still a kid due to time-travel. I think that in the TP timeline OoT Link goes to Termina and does the MM events and in the meantime the stuff between OoT and TP happen. GAH! It's all so convoluted!
There's no reason to assume it was Link's shield. It looks nothing like Link's shield, and even if it did, Link's shield was a run-of-the-mill storebought necessity. He got it from a guy in a shop. It could have belonged to most anyone. Moreover, it's stated outright during the game that the Hero of Winds has no connection to the Hero of Time.
The King of Red Lions explicitly stated that TWW Link is not related to the Hero of Time. Considering that he's the King of Hyrule from around that time, he of all people would know.
On the other hand, the Elemental Spirit Four Gods thingys seem to think otherwise, as he needs to cajole and convince them otherwise, and I'm pretty damn sure that they'd know better. Deku Tree accidentally starts talking to the kid in Old Hylian, for Farore's sake, and he'd know Link's soul/seed much, much, much, much better than the King.
It's not the same Deku Tree. The Deku Tree seen in The Wind Waker is presumably the Deku Sprout from the future of Ocarina of Time. Thus, he didn't know Link very well (his speech would indicate that he got the memories, but not the experiences, of his predecessor) and only spoke Old Hylian to the kid because he resembled a Kokiri (which the original Link was, though adopted).
You'd think so, but consider. Forest Haven is above sea level. That means that pre-flood, it was a mountain-top. The Great Deku Tree meadow in Ocarina of Time isn't on a mountain-top. We could invoke Coruscant or Nausicaa and say that Forest Haven is actually on top of the old forest, but that means that the trees had to be tall and thick enought pre-flood to protect the Deku Tree. Problematic, to say the least.
The King isn't the only one to state that the Hero of Winds and Hero of Time aren't related. Both the manual and the opening narration state that after the Hero of Time vanished, there were no “Heroes” to oppose Ganon until The Hero of Winds showed up. Considering the enormous amount of time that seems to have passed between OoT and TWW, it doesn't seem likely that there's any familial relation between the two. Of course, this opens up the issue of why TWW Link suddenly decided to claim the Master Sword and Triforce of Courage right then instead of, oh… Before the world was flooded.
Uh, maybe because the world had explicitly been flooded long enough that people don't remember a world with solid land, and Link is like ten years old?
By “TWW Link”, I didn't mean him in particular, but rather anyone at all who's eligible for the whole hero gig.
They were all Holding Out for a Hero. Even the people who might have been able to do it. Hell, Wind Waker Link was pretty much forced into starting his journey.
The final scene in Majora's Mask is a tracking shot through the Lost Woods from the Termina rabbithole to a large, fungus-covered stump with a carving of Link, Skull Kid, Tattle, Tael, and the four giants frolicking on it. This obviously means that someone (probably Link, since it looks very much like the carving on his treehouse in the Kokiri Forest) eventually came back from Termina.
Skull Kid was probably the one who made it back. The drawings were like the other drawings Skull Kid made, and we heard someone play Saria's song (the song Link teaches him in OoT and the song played in the Lost Woods, where the Skull Kid is from) on a flute (that doesn't sound like the ocarina) behind the stump. But if he got out, Link might have as well.
Link has to have made it back, because someone needs to have told the Royal Family about Link's adventure in Termina. The opening to Majora's Mask suggests that the events of the game are a side-story to the Hero of Time legend that the Royal Family treasures.
Note that the intro to Wind Waker says that when Ganon came back, the Hero of Time “did not appear”, implying he never returned from Termina.
He didn't appear because Wind Waker was the adult timeline. Adult Link disappeared from the world soon after Ganon's defeat, concurrent with Zelda sending him back in time. He got lost in the Lost Woods while looking for Navi, thus finding Termina. Now whether or not he got back to Hyrule probably doesn't matter, because in the end, Hylians become Stalfos in the Lost Woods. So while the Link in TP may or may not be his direct ancestor (there are a couple of parts that make me wonder if the women he met didn't get it on with him, particularly Malon), the “Hero” that trains Link in TP looked like a Stalfos and calls Link “my son” once he learns all the hidden techniques.
Indeed, Link never gets back. TWW's intro is very clear on this, the Hero of Time beats Ganon, goes on a quest to find a friend… and never comes back. TWW Link is explicitly stated to have no relation to Ocarina of Time Link. Now, TP, being in a separate timeline, probably does star a descendant of the Hero of Time.
No it isn't. The WW legend says that there was a Hero of Time, who defeated an evil which later returned. The legend also says that when the evil returned there was no Hero, so the people of the land turned to the gods for salvation. That's all it says. There is no time frame involved, and the legend doesn't even know what happened to the people or the name of their land. Considering that the people telling the legend are the descendants of Hyrule, the fact that they don't even remember that is pretty damning for the legend's reliability.
In fact, The Wind Waker follows on from the future of Ocarina of Time--after Zelda sent Link back to the past to relive the years he lost. That's why he didn't come--he'd been removed from the timeline. It has nothing to do with Navi. On the other hand, Majora's Mask timeline takes place in the past that Link is reliving. Presumably, Twilight Princess carries on from that timeline (and may indeed star a descendant of the Hero of Time).
"In fact, The Wind Waker follows on from the future of Ocarina of Time" indeed. In the past that Link returned to, Ganondorf never takes over, so it seems unlikely that there would be a legend about him raising to power and needing to be defeated.
It could probably go either way, but this Troper always saw Twilight Princess connected to the child!Timeline because in it, the Sages are the one to seal Ganondorf using the mirror, and this is the original Ganondorf due to gaining the Triforce of Power, as he was meant to. Since Link didn't defeat Ganondorf in this one, how would later Hylians hear the legend of the Great Hero defeating the Great Evil?
In Majora's Mask, you go back in time to the start of the three days each time you play the Song of Time. There are two ways this could happen, without Termina being flooded with small elf children and Dekus, Zoras, and Gorons in green hats, each within 3 days of the age of the next and previous. 1) Link undoes everything, and everything he did was for naught. The Romanis' cows are still gone, Kafei missed his and Anju's wedding, the pale zombie-hand guy is still stuck inside the toilet. This implies that the hero is just doing this to boost his power and acquire masks, not to actually help people, and he only bothers to stop the moon either because he can't get away quickly enough, or he wants to maintain his image as someone who doesn't allow the genocide of possibly every human on Hyrule, and quite a few other sentients. 2) Every time he returns to the past, it either allows him to move top a different timeline (same problems as option 1), or he creates an entirely new timeline. In option 2a, he just wants to be in the timeline where everyone survives, allowing him to look like a hero instead of a heartless person of uncertain lineage. Possibility 2b means that every time you go back to the past, you sentence hundreds of people to their deaths. That's right, you sacrificed the entire population of Termina (or at least Clock Town) dozens of times, just so you could get your precious Lovers' Mask. Nice job, hero.
I always thought that once you got to “Dawn of a New Day”, all the various timelines collapsed into one, and the universe/Ocarina/Goddess of Time sorted it all out so that all your sidequesting happened.
Indeed, not unlike the “Warp in the West” in the Elder Scrolls series, which caused all the endings of the second game, Daggerfall, to happen at the same time.
Possibility #1 is exactly what happens in the game. Link doesn't create new timelines, he just travels back in time period, which is why everything is reset. Nothing he does actually helps anyone unless he does it without going back in time, when he's able to confront Skull Kid/Majora. The ending sequences might show all the happy people you helped, but I don't think that actually represents reality; it's just a nice little montage to recount the player's successes. In other words, Link might remember doing all that stuff, which is what the endings depict, not the reality of the situation. Or, you know, maybe the goddesses did it. Whatever.
For the record, it's entirely possible to personally help just about everyone in a full three day cycle. The only ones left by the wayside are the Bomb Lady, Anju's grandmother, and either the postman or Madame Aroma. Link probably just runs himself ragged each time he turns back the click.
Well, that's easy. The Bomb Lady basically goes "Oh, darn." when she loses the shipment and her son implies they'll just have to be more careful next time, Madam Aroma's going to be overjoyed to hear from Kafei, regardless of who actually delivers the news, and can't you do Anju's Grandmother's thing anyways? Just find some spare time for the first story and wait 'til the last minute of a day for the second. Besides, she's not missing much, even if you don't do her quest.
actually I am pretty sure that the grandmother's story takes a full 24 hours. But I haven't played it in a while
Just because going back in time resets most of the favours Link has done, that doesn't mean that he's a selfish monster who only saves the world to improve his PR. Presumably, it would be rather difficult to defeat Majora with three hearts, a Kokiri Sword, no inventory items beyond the Deku Stick and Deku Nuts, and so on, so using the time loop to make himself stronger is simply an action necessary to stop Moon Falls, Everyone Dies. Not to mention that some of his favours do stick, and that completing the temples in previous cycles makes it easy to heal those large regions of the map very quickly in future runs.
I always thought that Termina was a parallel universe in which the concept of time did not exist, at least in a traditional sense. Sure, the residents had a sense of time (their lives ran on schedules that ran on a 24 hour clock, much like our own), but time could be reset at will, with certain events and instances remaning exactly the same. I think Termina exists in a chaotic timeless limbo.
I always went through hearing three words - “It's Groundhog day!” Same basic principle applies, while each day can be used to hone skills and improve Links inventory and health, it doesn't truly end until you've done everything in three days.
Perhaps time literally rewinds. That is, everything runs backward in an instant and switches back to “play mode” on Day One, so there's no infinite number of abandoned futures, just one single timeline Link's been playing like a DJ with a turntable.
The scenes playing during the credits imply that at least some of the problems fix themselves automatically when the mask is destroyed. For example, we see all four Great Fairies, perfectly healthy, the Indigo-Go's performing (suggesting that Lulu got her voice back), and Kafei and Anju's wedding.
Silly Tropers, you forget the main reason of paradoxes - simultaneous existences. Each time Link goes back in time, he reappears in Dawn of The First Day, at the exact same place. Reliving the memories during the first Song of Time warp (and possibly Majora's curse) renders him unable to see his other incarnations, yet they all are there. In short, Link goes back in time, to his previous self, and that previous self repeats his actions on that previous cycle, which is the same cycle Link is currently on, doing other work. As far as I understand.
I always assumed that, since it was Majora who caused 97% the shit that went wrong, his defeat at Link's hands reversed everything that happened, even the things that Link doesn't personally tend to in that particular timeline. Kafei magically returns to normal, and is thus able to reunite with Anju. The mountains thaw out, thus saving the Gorons, the spirtis in Ikana Canyon are finally able to rest and the little girl's father is cured, etc. In the end, even if he doesn't get directly involved with their affairs, the desired result is obtained…no one suffers a fiery death, and things begin returning to normal
I always thought that too. I mean, he's not being selfish by taking items from people, he's doing that to prepare for a large battle that will save EVERYONE at once, not just a set few people. That may actually be even worse! Imagine: “I'll save Anju and Grandma, but the Postman can go burn. Literally.” By killing Majora, he allows them to live longer and get what they needed on their own. Link knows that Anju and Kafei will eventually get married, whether he helps or not. His top priority is to stop the Moon, defeat Majora, and go home.
In Majora's Mask- what's up with the boss of the Snowhead Temple, Goht? A giant robot cow, so covered with ice it can't move, is the cause of eternal winter? In fact, though this troper personally has this game in his top five, pretty much ALL of Majora's Mask is thoroughly fucked up. Goht just happens to be the biggest 'WTF' about MM for this troper.
It's a goat, not a cow. Hence the name. Also, you explain to me how two giant centipedes are the cause of several undead running rampant about a deserted town.
Okay, I admit it's not really a cow, but still: giant sand-leaping bugs seem to adhere more to their desert/monster-themed temple than a robot goat does in an ice-themed temple.
Each one is the corrupted form of the Giants - the masks they are forced to wear, as it were. By defeating them, you are able to free the giants, who are able to push back the status quo. At the end, summoning their remains allows the giants to break through the bonds themselves, and fight for you in the final climatic scene.
It seems to me like Goht isn't so much the cause of eternal winter as just a corrupted stand-in for the giant. Majora probably plagued Snowhead and set Goht into place just to keep the plague going.
In Majora's Mask- what does the New Wave Bossa Nova do, exactly? It woke up a giant turtle, but Link already had the Sonata Of Awakening at that point. Does the effect of that song have any causal or thematic connection to the eggs or the dungeon? It should have been something cool like Smoke On The Water.
It's a plot point. The New Wave Bossa Nova was one of Lulu's songs - the eggs probably had it buried deep in their collective subconscious, and just happened - intentionally or otherwise - to form the sheet music for it upon hatching. Also, the turtle is said to be a fan of Lulu's singing, and while he was asleep, he said himself that he had seen everything that was happening, so he might have heard the song and figured that it proved Link had helped Lulu out, so now he was ready to tackle Great Bay Temple.
It's been awhile since I did a straight run of the game, but wasn't it Lulu's voice that woke the turtle? And it was the Bossa Nova that shook her out of her funk and gave her her voice back, so… yeah.
The description of the song says that it gives someone who lost their voice back to them. A Cardboard Song per say.
Related and even more nitpicky: In order for Lulu to regain her voice, Zora Link has to play the aforementioned song. Immediately afterward, the turtle shows up and tells him to ride on his back to the temple. But there's no way to reach his back without using the Hookshot, which can only be used by regular Link. And while this is happening, a justifiably confused Lulu stares at the turtle. Doesn't that mean there's no possible way for Link to reach the temple without Lulu noticing that her love is actually a young Hylian boy? Yet she never brings it up later.
Given that you can transform anywhere and people seem oblivious, I really don't think it's that big a deal. Also lampshaded in this comic
Actually, it's been mentioned by Lulu that she doesn't know the song other than the fact her mother sung it to her long ago and she forgot it while growing up. If I remember this correctly, the dialogue implies that upon laying the eggs and them hatching, the babies will know the song right off but gradually forget it as they grow up, probably something more common with Lulu's family than zoras in general because they're very musical-related. Lulu (Senior) probably remembered it when she learned it to sing as a lullaby for Lulu (junior), but didn't necessarily need it since she had no problem with her voice when her daughter seems more prone to it. Her daughter thus has that song passed back to her by her children when she herself is too old to remember it. I think. Might also have something to do with Lulu's ancestry as a line of Great Bay guardians considering that song is essentially a key to an otherwise nigh impossible blur to swim to (the turtle I think also mentions this by how he said he can only awaken to guide people to the temple when the time calls for it, and he's the only one who can pass the harsh currents).
If you talk to Tito at one point, he tells you about the “guardian” of the Great Bay Temple, who apparently reacts to whenever the Temple is in trouble. He comments that Lulu's funk could imply that she's the guardian. If that's the case, it could be that her children hatched to remind her of the song, which she was supposed to sing so that a hero could go save the temple from evil. This troper also got the feeling that Lulu's mother was the guardian as well and Lulu didn't know that she was the temple's guardian or what she had to do.
Why is the boss of Majora's Mask's Great Bay Temple called George?
…George?
Gyorg, the name of the giant fish, sounds almost identical to the name Georg (pronounced GEY-org), the German form of George.
I realize that this is a joke JBM, but I feels compelled to give my opinion. I always thought it's name was an onomatopoeia for it's roar. What bugs me about it is how it's suddenly a water/sand mook in Wind Waker and the DS sequels.
In Majora's Mask, why doesn't Link use the Song of Healing to un-curse Kafei? Is Anju a pedophile or something?
It's the nature of the curse. The Song of Healing seems to focus on the dying, the dead, and those cursed by masks. Kafei was merely shapeshifted. That's not the same thing.
It's different in that it's not something that technically needs “healing”, per se. Being a spirit who can't pass on? He's unnaturally trapped; that needs healing. Being on the verge of death? He's injured; that needs healing. Being cursed with a half-undead form? He's been semi-zombified; that needs healing. But being de-aged? There's nothing that really needs healing there; in fact, since being de-aged would have increased his lifespan, such a “healing” would have actually caused him to die sooner. Now, what really bugs me is why the Song of Healing's effect on the dying Zora is to kill him.
The Song of Healing does not provide physical healing. It heals the soul. This means that ghosts can be allowed to pass on peacefully, and people afflicted with curses can be purged of them. Kafei seems unable to be helped because his curse does not bring him the great anguish of being unnaturally shapeshifted (note that Link and Gibdo-man being in such twisted forms was quite physically and mentally painful). Mikau, the Zora, was dying anyway, and nothing could save him. The Song simply meant that he could peacefully move on into the next life.
In Majora's Mask, the Goron named Link can't get into his reserved room because the Goron Verbal Tic causes him to introduce himself as “Link-goro” when the reservation is just for “Link”. But why wouldn't he have called himself “Link-goro” when he first made the reservation? I suppose he could have phrased it differently, as in “Link is my name-goro”, but that still doesn't explain why he couldn't have just used that phrasing to identify himself at the inn. Aside, of course, from him simply holding an Idiot Ball.
He sent his reservation in the mail, making a verbal tic impossible.
What's odd is that if you don't take the reservation, he doesn't state his name in a way his Verbal Tic gets in the way, yet does if you already took the reservation. What I find odd is why Anju doesn't question why there are two people with the same names, one of which made a reservation, but I can chalk that up to her being too polite and passive to confront you about stealing people's rooms.
It was stated in the Bomber's Notebook that Anju frequently mixed up her guests' names.
In the 3DS remake, Anju is at least aware that the reservation is for a Goron and won't let non-Goron Link take it.
In Majora's Mask, that one sidequest where you have to protect the Bomb Shop Lady's luggage from the thief? Did anyone else notice that the thief simply RAN PAST the town guard? And the guard didn't even TRY to stop the thief? What the hell, man?
Sakon paid him off? Sleeping at his post? Doesn't really give a damn, since the guy didn't get away with it?
This Troper finds amusement in putting the Deku Mask on, and having the guard actually brace himself and put out his hand (ostensibly to stop the thief), only for Sakon to run right through him.
Everybody should know by now that the guards in “Zelda” are morons. Heck, even Zelda can sneak past them! (As seen in Minish Cap and mentioned in Ocarina of Time.)
And the fact that when there's a wolf running amok in town, all they can do is cluster around it in groups of five, holding it at bay with lances, and… tremble at it? Seriously, just push your lance forward.
The guard is so overcome with despair at the thought of everyone dying in three days that he doesn't see the point in foiling a robbery.
Obviously, he was busy making sure children don't leave town unless they have swords.
In Majora's Mask, the bell in South Clock Town can be heard from as remote a place as the Great Bay Temple. Given how loud this must be, why is it that everyone in Clock Town still has functioning eardrums?
Maybe Link has a watch.
It's not the bell being loud, it's just Link being a Hylian. Hylian ears can even make out the most silent sound.
So how does Link not go deaf in Clock Town?
Magic. Hylian ears are said to be gifts from the gods; it makes sense they are selective enough to account for distance. Heck, if magic is what allows Link to hear better than humans, there'd be no reason for loud sounds to physically harm him anyway.
There's only one problem… Aren't the majority of Clock Town inhabitants also Hylian?
Parallel universe so…not exactly? Maybe, but without the ears?
Compared to Hyrule, Termina seems to rely on technology rather than magic. It could be that even though they are physically identical, the fact that the Terminans don't use magic like the Hylians means they never gained the magical hearing abilities the Hylians posses.
Gameplay and Story Segregation? It helps you tell when an (in-game) hour has passed if you happen to not be looking at the timer for whatever reason (if you're fighting a boss, for instance, you might not be focusing on the timer as much).
Oh God, those statues in Majora's Mask. Why Miyamoto, why?
I heard somewhere that Link's statue was meant to look like Miyamoto.
The Happy Mask Man was meant to look like Miyamoto, too right?
Why does Link have to repeat the same three days over and over? Couldn't he just go back even further and avoid getting jumped by Skull Kid in the first place? Or better yet, get jumped, then turn the tables on him and grab the mask? That way, many of the problems in the game never occur.
Aside from the “then there'd be no game” argument, Link didn't choose the exact point of the reset, he just played the Song Of Time and asked the Goddess of Time to save him from the falling moon. Maybe the Goddess decided that a Groundhog Day Loop was the only way for Link to not only stop the moon from falling but to also solve all the other problems in Termina, most of which were caused by Skull Kid's pranks, which wouldn't be possible if Link just hopped up and grabbed the mask. Or alternatively, the Goddess is messing with him.
Because Link wasn't in Termina prior to the first day. He keeps getting sent back to that period because it's the earliest point when he would be in the dimension and capable of helping. Yeah, more time would be very helpful, but Link had the bad luck of getting involved in the final stages of Majora's rampage and the goddess had to work with what she had.
Very obviously, the so-called Goddess of Time doesn't exactly have the same kind of reality-warping power in Hyrule; sending him back past where her influence was greatest very well might be beyond what she could do when it came to fiddling with time.
The first time you play the Song of Time at the top of the Clock Tower, you're treated to a flashback-like cutscene of the events leading up to Link being trapped in Termina. The way I saw it, it was the Goddess of Time choosing a place to send Link back to. Like “no, I can't send him there…” or “no, no, he doesn't need to talk to the HMS twice”, and so on. It's why the flashbacks abrutly end to “Dawn of the First Day”, 'cause she finally made up her mind. Not sure how that explains talking to the HMS afterward, though…unless the HMS truly believes that you can get a mask that fast…
In “Majora's Mask”, there's one mask that confuses me, the Don Gero's Mask (It's frog one). The hands actually cover Link's eyes! I can excuse the other masks because they probably have eyeholes that we can't see, but this mask is just odd. How in Din's name can Link see anything with that mask? It just makes no sense to have a mask that physically hinders your vision for no real reason at all.
Or maybe he just navigates by his ears. He's got pointy ears and he's a Hylian and a powerful hero to boot. I think he could work with a mask with such crappy design.
Ever consider that maybe there are small eyeholes that we can't see? Maybe they're on the frog mask's hands?
Kafei. Dear god, Kafei…where do I even start? So he mysteriously disappeared about a month before the First Day. When you talk to him, you learn that he's hiding because he doesn't have his wedding mask. Okay, so he promised Anju he'd bring it, and okay, we all know masks are Serious Business in Termina, but really…why couldn't he just tell her, “I'm really sorry, but the Sun's Mask was stolen from me”? What does he expect Anju to say? “Get out of my hotel, you asshole”? At no other point in the sidequest are there any hints of the relationship being unstable or materialistic in the least, and one would think Kafei would be smart enough to realize Anju would love him even if he didn't bring it the next time he saw her. Hell, if he'd gone back the night it was taken and told her then…with a month to go, he would have had plenty of time to a) get the mask back, maybe even with her help, or b) make a new one. Instead, he chooses to hide out in a shed and let Anju and everyone else worry themselves sick over his unexplained absence. He doesn't seem to be an insensitive prick, nor does he come off as particularly unintelligent, so what in the world would lead him to that decision? And I'm not looking for “it was for the sake of gameplay” or “otherwise there wouldn't have been a sidequest”!
And for that matter, Anju. If she really had absolutely no idea where Kafei could possibly have gone off to, then what the hell was she doing at the Laundry Pool on the Second Day, waiting right outside his door? Some theories say it's a place with some known connection to him, but if that's the case, why did nobody think to check there? And how, for that matter, did the postman find out if nobody else did? There are just way too many holes in this story once you stop to think about it…
I doubt that she knew that was Kafei's house. It's not like there's a sign there. Also, Anju probably would tell him to GTFO. I mean, think about it. First of all, if you screwed up your marriage proposal, your significant other wouldn't be very happy. Second, they were going to exchange masks ON THE EVE OF THE CARNIVAL. Kafei didn't have TIME to make a new one. (Unless they rescheduled, but judging by how important it was to Kafei, it's probably one-of-a-kind.)
As for why he didn't say anything to Anju, it wasn't out of fear of what she'd say, but shame- he couldn't bring himself to face her until he found it (it works best if you think of it as being like a wedding ring, only more ritualistically significant). As for why nobody looked there, maybe they did, but he was good at hiding, but she doesn't give up hope, and keeps coming whenever she gets a chance, just in case. As for how the Postman found out, he's the alternate universe version of a guy capable of running at literally infinity+1 miles per hour, I think a little supernatural detection ability is more than plausible.
But it wasn't like he had foolishly misplaced it. It was stolen from him. I think Anju would have been more than willing to not be mad with him if he told her the day it was stolen that it was…stolen! He should've known that Anju would love him mask or no mask.
Exactly. I'll accept the magic postman, and the explanation for why nobody found him despite seeming to know where he was makes enough sense. But going into hiding in the first place rather than just explaining…that part I still can't understand.
I think the shame is still there. People feel irrational guilt over milder things; it was most likely a mugging, and that can scar a person. He may have in his own mind needed that closure/to get his mask back to regain his honor from losing it to a thief. Not entirely sensible, but then, at some point one has to accept lapses in judgment. Not to mention, he's a little nervous about the whole “back to pre-puberty” bit...
Just to put emphasis on what the person above me said, Skull Kid turned him pre-pubescent. Who could blame the guy for hiding from his fiancé?
The reason why Anju was actively looking for him, yet not actively enough to actually look for him was because her mother was absolutely no help to the situation. If you've got the room key and overheard their conversation (on the second day, at 12:30 AM I believe), she convinces Anju that Kafei left her at the altar because he loves her best friend Cremia, and that (in some convulted way I don't get since Kafei is the son of the mayor and among the more powerful, politically in Clock Town as it is) Cremia's business in Romani Ranch will get him much more wealth and power than Anju and her cafeteria Inn. This is justified if you followed Anju to Romani Ranch where her mother's dialogue implies she's doing this because her own husband may have done the same thing and she fears a repeat with Anju. Assuming that Mom is convinced of this for the entire month Kafei ran off, Anju's been slowly brainwashed by her to believe she is unfit compared to her best friend and was convinced that Kafei ran off because of her. She even outright states she is afraid to actually meet Kafei despite searching for him (and coming so mind-numbingly close to seeing him) because of said insecurity (if you meet her in the Laundry Pool without telling her you're looking for Kafei and without meeting her to get her letter). Ideally, any note Kafei left Anju failed to address this insecurity other than a “I still love you” probably thrown in there because he doesn't know and these two are reacting in a situation similar to when you have a couple, both of which love each other, but are convinced if they admit it to each other they'll scare the other off despite this being exactly what that significant-other-to-be wanted to hear.
Anju states that she was afraid to find Kafei, because she thought that he might have left because of something she did. And it does make sense that marriage to Cremia would be more sensible for Kafei than marriage to Anju. Cremia is the one who provides Clock Town with their milk. She's one of exactly two businesses that provides the stuff, and hers is clearly the best quality available. Anju, on the other hand, runs an inn with exactly three bedrooms, someone living in the toilet, and everything crumbling down. She seems to only get a lot of business during the carnival. In other words, Cremia's business is more vital and influential to the town than Anju's is.
From what this troper understood, Kafei's hiding and shame over the mugging came from the child form he was in. He says that the thief targeted him specifically because he was a child, the implication being that if he had been an adult, he never would have been considered an easy target and thus would never have lost the mask. The mask which, it's implied, takes a lot of effort to make and is needed for them to be married. So to him, he'd be doubly disappointing Anju - first because he's stuck in the body of a child (yes, she doesn't care, but probably anyone in his position would be scared for anyone to see them like that) and second because he was unable to defend what was essentially his wedding ring, and thus unable to fulfill his promise to marry her. As for Anju's searching for him, she was scared and uncertain as to what exactly was going on. He went missing, but then sent her the letter, telling her that he'd be back soon and that they could be married then. Meanwhile, she's told by her mother that he probably ran off with her best friend.
This was my thinking too, getting mugged and the mask being stolen right when he was about to present it to Anju was just the cherry on his sundae of misery and shame after being cursed.
What happened to Romani after she gets abducted by the aliens (should you let them get into the barn)? I know at least one troper thinking she was lobotomized, but I just always assumed that she was locked in permanent BSOD upon being surrounded by the aliens who was shocked at this stowaway that they returned her immediately. (And she is on the ranch in the second day, just out near the doggy race building wandering around aimlessly.)
Eh, I don't see why the aliens would just let her go. At the very least, as aliens are wont to do, they would give her a quick mindwipe to keep up The Masquerade (notice how Romani and maybe the Gormon Brothers are about the only ones who know anything about Them). So perhaps not a lobotomy, but something a little more drastic than “GTFO”, I'd guess.
True. They may have just given her a mind wipe. A very drastic mindwipe as she doesn't even seem to recognize where she is.
This troper's theory is that they somehow erased all of her memories of the aliens, which means that she wouldn't try to save the cows the next year, either. If you do the balloon challenge after she was returned, she says something like “This…this was important for something, wasn't it? I can't remember what, though…”
One thing that struck me as odd was that Tatl stuck around with Tael with Skull Kid since they've met and well into the time Skull Kid had stolen Majora's Mask from the Happy Mask Salesman. When she is separated from Skull Kid and Tael, she tags along with you after you've just been cursed and makes a few remarks implying her stuck-up anal attitude against you since you've met her up to when you were cursed was toned down and she felt remorse for the whole mess. Then she shows surprise at finding out Skull Kid had done things that went past the line of “prank”, and finally swore off loyalty to him when he did the last straw of slapping Tael. This is the same fairy who is even more surprised and disgusted of her “friend” when she starts travelling with you and sees more and more of the havoc Skull Kid did with the influence of the mask. The question I had was why was she seemingly not aware of even half of the stuff Skull Kid did, nevermind everything, when she had more than likely been by his side the entire time up to the point she met with Link? I know one answer to this might be “because Skull Kid performed these things after Tatl left”, and I agreed, right up to the point I learned that this isn't necessarily the case for some of these events where they seem to take place long before Link came into the picture. Kafei, for instance, hid himself from his friends, family and future wife because he was transformed into a kid by Skull Kid for indirectly being rude to him and that eventually led to the loss of his mask. His mother stated he disappeared at least a month ago from when Link speaks to Aroma and gains Kafei's Mask. One can argue the mask bit took place sooner, but then Kafei said that he hid, not because of what he became, but because of the loss of his mask, so if he had remained hidden for over a month (instead of returned home and gone “Mom! Dad! I'm a kid again! Halp!” since, without shame, he should have no trouble facing them or Anju as a child), we can assume the mask theft took place relatively close to the time he was just cursed. I have a hard time believing Skull Kid would separate from his fairies whom tagged along with him everywhere just to do these things, but I have to wonder, is that really the case? Such as the Deku shrub (or the remains of it) near the path to the Clock Tower. Tatl didn't recognise it despite making remarks of how it looks a lot like Link (in his cursed Deku form), and we can assume it was killed (or whatever he did to make it the way it is…brrr…) before Link came and Tatl got separated.
There's a possibility that Termina time is faster than the flow of time in the catacombs at the beginning of the game. At the very least, time definitely works differently in Termina.
It could be that the Skull Kid snuck off to do some of that stuff.
This makes sense, since Tael seems to understand a bit more about the situation with the four giants than Tatl does - maybe she'd been getting more and more distant from the two of them as the damage the Skull Kid caused got greater and greater.
Regarding the whole Kafei thing, think about it this way - all Tatl would have seen had she been around the Skull Kid at the time would have been the Skull Kid turning him into a kid. It seems pretty plausible that none of them involved even knew the implications it would have on Kafei's marriage. They probably didn't know anything about the guy. Probably they just ran across a guy that seemed particularly prideful, figured it would be a hilarious way to mess with him, and then ran off without a second thought.
So after Majora's Mask events, Link leaves Termina to go look for the friend he lost earlier, probably with the masks he collected (transformation ones, specifically), but probably without. So if Link disappears from Termina, what will happen to the lives he masqueraded as throughout the game? Sure, Darmani has been known or guessed to be dead for some time, and the Deku Butler eventually finds the body of his son, but then there's Mikau whom all the Zoras, especially the Indigo-Go's, have no clue the real Mikau is dead. So in Mikau's case, will they ever find his shrine and how would they react after Mikau mysteriously decides not to appear anymore?
Zora Link is shown playing with the Indigo-Go's in the credits, adding to this confusion.
Well, Mikau's grave is right there on the beach, so they're bound to find out eventually. As for the concert, Link was filling in for Mikau (hey, they still need a guitarist) temporarily.
I have a small question: Why does Link need Kafei's Mask to ask about Kafei?
Link doesn't know what Kafei looks like (unless he talked to Anju on the 2nd day, but let's ignore that little detail), so he probably says something like, “He looks a little something like (pointing to mask) this.” Plus, it would take too much effort to include any conversation options besides Yes/No.
All right, very, very minor JBM, but Zelda's only lines in the game. She says something along “I've only known you for a short time, but I feel like I've known you for forever…This reminds me of us”. She then proceeds to play the Song of Time. Presumably Link and Zelda got buddy-buddy in the year succeeding the events of OoT, so that explains the fond memories. But the Song of Time reminds her of their friendship? What? Really? And why does it seem like Link only just remembers it? I'm assuming it has something to do with concussive horse knocks from being dragged by Epona…
It's plausible that Zelda has memories of the future due to being the one that sent Link back in time, due to the Triforce of Wisdom, or both (that's what this Troper has always assumed.) What's stranger is that, where Zelda gave Link a song, Malon gave him a horse. Honestly, how DID he convince her to let him borrow/have Epona?
OP's got a point though, why the Song of Time? Zelda's Lullaby seems like it would be a more appropriate song for that. From a gameplay perspective, of course the Song of Time is a lot more useful in Majora's Mask, but I wonder why that song in particular would have more of a connection with Link than any others.
This Troper is just speculating, but I think it's to do with the fact that the Song of Time was what opened the Door of Time, meaning Link aged seven years and Ganondorf managed to get the Triforce of Power. If it wasn't for the Song of Time Link never would have gone on his journey in the future and defeated Ganondorf. When they were kids stopping Ganondorf was really kinda a “He's a baddy we must stop him!” thing. It's not until the future that they realise just how powerful and evil Ganondorf really is, and it's then they grow and mature into heroes. Besides, since Zelda's Lullaby is used for everything, from getting into Zora's Domain to summoning Great Fairies, Link probably regards it as a Mundane Utility rather than a special song that symbolises his relationship with Zelda.
Link is the Hero of Time. She probably knows that on some level, thus the association is a little more logical than a song Impa sang to her when she was little. Besides, who says that was a real memory? Maybe it was a dream he'd had or a mish-mash of memories. It did remind me, after all, of his departure with Saria (who also gives Link a song to commemorate their friendship).
Not the issue itself that bugs me, but the question: Does Zelda remember the (future) events from OoT? I always assumed she did, but I just began a replay of MM today, and somehow I get the feeling that she does not.
How is it that if you have any Rupees on hand and play the Song of Time, it disappears, but if you store it in the bank, it's still there? I suppose there's Gameplay and Story Segregation, but what does the bank guy do, does he place a time-proof stamp on the Rupees you give him? Moreover, how does he remember you?
Pay attention when you first open the account: The bank balance isn't tracked at the bank, it's tracked by a tattoo he puts on Link, and the tattoo persists when Link is thrown back in time. So the teller sees someone with an official tattoo of the bank and assumes that Link is a legitimate customer, so he lets him take money out.
In layman's terms, Link is commiting bank fraud.
Minor one, but… why is the Kokiri Sword different looking in Majora's Mask?
If memory serves, only the hilt has changed. So presumably, sometime in between OoT and MM, the old handle broke while Link was doing a carving on his treehouse or something and so he had to get it replaced.
Why is that room in the Stock Pot Inn called the Knife Chamber? Are they just that bad at marketing?
Because it used to be a cafeteria. Talk to Anju when she's cooking for her grandmother and she mentions it.
So how come kid Link actually has the Ocarina of Time in the first place? I thought Princess Zelda sent him back to his own time without being able to give him back the ocarina first. (Note to the replier: Thank you, that helped!)
That's explained near the begining of the game when Link his flashback and remembers when he left Hyrule. The flashback shows Zelda and Link (as kids) right before Link leave for Termina. Zelda gives him the ocarina and teaches him the Song of Time, he forgot these events briefly after being dragged through the woods by the Skull Kid.
Why did they change the save system for the US release? Seriously, it's extremely annoying that you can't save your game permanently without the Song of Time. Especially when you have parents who won't let you play for very long.
I'm guessing this was done to increase difficulty, though it definitely increases backtracking if you're determined to keep your hard-earned rupees. What were the save-system differences in other releases?
Foreign releases were made easier. In the Japanese version, the only way to save the game was to use the Song of Time; owl-statue saving did not exist whatsoever, meaning that if you were doing a time-consuming task and for whatever reason had to stop playing, you had no choice but to start it all over again. Other versions added the additional save system, at the cost of one save slot (Japanese version has three, all others have two).
The 3DS remake allows permanent saving at owl statues.
Why did that fisherman need a picture of one the female pirates? Did he need it for the reason I think he did, because that's a bit much for a kid's game.
What on earth would imply that? He probably wants one because he admires the pirates, thinks they're cool and likes the way they dress.
I love how nobody freaking pays attention to the actual ending. You know, the bit where they show the wedding? From Kafei's perspective? And said perspective is high enough to see eye to eye with Anju? Good Christ, people, the curse was broken at the end of the goddamn game. Am I seriously the only person on the planet who can put two and two together here?
You're not alone. I figured it out the moment I saw that cutscene for the first time. Really, people, it isn't that complicated to figure out that we're looking through Adult Kafei's eyes in this scene.
Alright, level with me: Who in the blue hell thought that the Blast Mask, a mask designed to EXPLODE WHILE STILL ON THE WEARER'S FACE was a good idea for a mask/utility? The thing can only be detonated whilst still on Link's face, costing him health without proper shield timing. You'd have to be CRAZY or a suicide bomber to wear that thing and use it. About the best reason I can come up with was it was a terrorist weapon the bomb shop happened to get ahold of. Maybe Termina had a Heaven Smile problem a while back.
What this troper wonders is why the kindly old lady thought it would be a great gift for a kid.
Okay, so it's shown that Stock Pot Inn could really do with a good fixing up…so why doesn't Anju use the 100 rupees in the Knife Chamber to do just that? Surely it'd be enough to fix up the Knife Chamber and get an exterminator for the bugs in the kitchen? The only reason I can think of why she doesn't is that the rupees are actually Goron!Link's luggage sent to his reserved room before his arrival (in which case Link is stealing both a reservation and money from a poor, innocent Goron), but even if that's the case I think I remember there being 100 rupees in Anju's room too.
Speaking of which, Link has 5,000 rupees in his bank. He can't spare even 400 rupees for Anju to re-model her inn?
Perhaps Anju either saved the rupees and kept forgetting to use them, or she only saved them recently and either didn't get a chance to use them, or decided it wasn't worth it if the moon was falling. Either that, or those rupees were supposed to be saved for her wedding, to pay for the expenses or like a dowry.
Okay, I got another one in regards to our old friend, the Moon. Why do fans keep thinking its ugly face is grinning? On the off days I actually feel like looking at the thing it certainly doesn't look like its grinning to me, its quite obviously grimacing in pain or its just pissed off, I wouldn't call that toothy mouthed expression a smile in any way.
According to Brawl in the Family, the moon's actually terrified. It knows it's being pulled closer and closer to the Earth and there's nothing it can do about it. The grimace? It's bracing itself for the eventual impact.
Okay, that's a dandy explanation for why its face is like that and BITF is great. Still doesn't explain why people think its grinning though.
Fans are weird. Most fan culture makes no sense compared to the source. If the “Moon's Tear” didn't give them the hint nothing will.
Precisely. Unless its actually secretly crying with laughter because its just one big nutcase that finds this whole thing funny, I do not see a smile on that thing's mouth at all. If that's a smile then I'm Romani's uncle.
Does anyone know what they did to make Zora Link's voice sound the way it did? Kind of like a ripply version of Young Link's normal voice. What's the proper term I'm looking for, here?
If the transformation masks carry the souls of dead people, who the hell did Majora kill to make the Fierce Deity's Mask?
A fierce deity that the demon Majora killed, obviously.
The manga shows a warrior managing to slay the demon Majora via convincing it to dance itself to death. Said warrior resembled the Fierce Deity mask quite a bit so one way or another the warrior's soul became a mask that ended up in the hands of Majora. I'd say it was Majora's parting shot.
Okay. So the guitarist of The Indigo-Go's is dead and Link has been posing as him. Would Link have to tell them Mikau is dead and what would they do when they find out?
This troper heard a theory that Link was able to bring Darmini, the Deku butler's son, and Mikaru back by recreating their bodies via the Elegy of Emptiness, and putting the transformation masks on each one. The idea was that the Elegy brought everything back but their souls, and the masks held their souls, so putting the two together would bring them back. If that were the case, there'd still be some explaining to do, but at least those three guys would be back for their friends and family.
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