The Loop (TV)
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Screw Destiny is somewhat Double Standard.
- What bugs me is that somebody who screws destiny is always the one who's destined to do bad things, like causing Endofthe World As We Know It, or destined to be bad because of his/her bad heritage, and decides to go against it. But consider this case: a hero encounters a villain who mutters about the fact that "I have to do X (which usually means bad things) Because Destiny Says So", and the hero tries to prove the villain that he/she have to fight that destiny. But what if the hero is the Chosen One? That means, he/she has a "good" destiny. It's somewhat hypocritical to me; the hero upholds the Screw Destiny schtick, but he/she doesn't go against his/her own. Broken Aesop indeed.
- It's called The Unchosen One. They do good not because destiny said so, but because they WANT to do good. If that matches up with destiny, well that's not why they did it, so they could care less. It's not exactly hard to 'prophecies' that a good person is gonna do something good after all.
- I've never heard of a story where the aesop was "Avoid your destiny no matter what". Screw Destiny plots are usually about evil-destined people doing good because the reverse is a Chosen One who decides to sit on his ass and do nothing, and that's a really lame protagonist.
- That's why I called it "Double Standard": Only "bad" guys can screw destiny, while "good" guys cannot. But sometimes, "good" guys can - Consider this case: A person is a Chosen One who's destined to save the world. But either he/she's too lazy (or weak) to do it, or he/she thinks it's too hard. Or maybe he/she has tried, but he/she thinks the world wouldn't be good anymore, or something happened that makes him/her lose faith on the destiny, becoming Fallen Hero.
- Refusal of the Call is a standard heroic trope. Of course, if it ended there, there would be no story except, "The bad guy wins." The Chosen One almost always says, "No way" when first told of his gift or destiny, but later embraces it. Then when he's told that he's destined to die as a result, many modern heroes would then say, "Screw that", and Take a Third Option. Weak or lazy heroes don't make for interesting stories.
- Because a story where the protagonist decided to stick their thumbs up their ass and wait for the world to end would be a very boring story.
- In essence, it's not that people with a good destiny can't Screw Destiny, it's that there's no real reason to. And a hero with a bad destiny has reason to screw it, but one of the 'heroic' things they do is show a willingness to embrace a bad destiny for the sake of others. Or, if they're lucky, Take a Third Option and Screw Destiny while still saving people.
- This is baffling: why would a hero want to screw their good destiny? Why SHOULD they?
- He could, if he's actually not a good guy. Or possibly he want something more than what it had prophecized.
- Because of spite at being manipulated by cosmic forces?
- So, definition of destiny. It's something that's going to happen. It's logically impossible to screw. The closest we should hypothetically be able to get is "screw prophecy". So why does this trope exist (as it is)?
- Because people don't like the idea of being controlled automata, and do like the idea that the future can be changed, and there is no such thing as a single "going to happen", only possibilities based on human choices.
- Whether destiny exists or not is a philosophical question, so don't try to imply that destiny exists. Some people believe in free will, people like me don't. Anyone who would say Screw Destiny would make their stance obvious and say that people have free will to make their own choices to influence the future, and probably put up a prophecy in the story for a character to disprove if this is an aesop they want. They're not saying that they're screwing destiny, they're just rejecting the idea.
- Say I'm about to trip on something. If I get a glimpse of what's going to happen, I can avoid it. Basically, screwing destiny is as complex as understanding time travel, it's just easier to not think about. I prefer not to anyway.
- The trouble with the trope is that it assumes two things that are logically incongruous: that we have control over our futures and that it's possible to find out exactly what will happen in the future. The existence of one should make the other impossible. The way it plays out in stories, as the first person posted, is more along the lines of "prove that the prophecy is a lie".
- So... if I say Screw Destiny by actually screwing a girl named Destiny despite fate or some cal saying that to do so is not in the cards for me, what the hell did I just do to the universe?
- What pisses me off, is that it is somehow percieved as "heroic" if the work has the protagonist fight against death. Which is why I prefer Harry Potter. J. K. Rowling pounds it into your head that death is unavoidable, but once you face up to this fact you can move on and try to have a better life.
- Eh? What? Struggling against death is a natural thing for humans to do. It may be inevitable (with the current technological standard), but that doesn't mean one can't try to hold it back for as long as possible. Not struggling against death makes everything else pointless. One might as well just stop eating or hell, just shoot oneself. So that can't really be what you mean. What I am assuming you mean then is people trying to defeat death permanently. I don't remember that ever being portrayed heroically. That's why tropes like Immortality Immorality and Fantastic Aesop: Resurrection exist. And that's really more about hubris and trying to face up to challenges one might not be prepared to than about destiny.
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