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Weedle McHairybug

aka Eric Otness

Blocked
  • I live in Dunwoody, Georgia
  • I was born on February 14
  • I am Male
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  • https://allthetropes.fandom.com/wiki/The_Hunchback_of_Notre_Dame_(Disney_film)/YMMV?diff=352702&oldid=352701

    For one, we strive to be politically neutral here, please keep personal politics out of your editing or you will be thrown out. Consider this your first and last warning.

    Second, I really hate to ask if you are racist or bigoted, but this sort of editing makes me seriously believe you are, and we have a zero tolerance policy on that sort of thing, we strive to remain as neutral as possible on any political issues.

    Again, this is your first and last warning. A repeat means you are blocked indefinitely, and I will not accept an appeal.

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    • I enjoy a healthy debate myself, thanks for honoring me with a civil and reasoned argument.

      As to your counters, you make a good case a dubious mental state is not really a good indicator of the evil someone would do if they were completely sane. After all, from what we know of Kefka BEFORE his mind got twisted by Magitek experimentation, he wasn't all that nice then, but any moral restraints he may have had, if any, were utterly obviated by his mental damage.

      Still, if he was already prone to doing evil before then, then one can argue sanity would have just made him more morally responsible for everything he did with full knowledge of the consequences and the morality of said decisions, but wouldn't change the fact, in the end, he was still a monster by choice.

      In that respect, your argument is quite persuasive.

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    • Thanks. Nice to have a debate that doesn't devolve into name-calling, to be honest.

      Still, there is the likes of Dr. Weil, who unlike Kefka wasn't even implied to have had mental damage as an excuse, not to mention Volgin and Coldman who also didn't have mental damage as well (at least, none that's actually implied or directly stated). And aside from that, they also had Frollo's position, yet obviously didn't even attempt to restrain themselves, not even to cover their positions, something even Frollo at least tried to do. Also the Patriots AIs, especially when they are de-facto in charge of American society in MGS2, yet didn't even try to hide their disgust for humanity and megalomania.

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  • I was wondering if you could help me with something. I'm not entirely convinced Zemus from Final Fantasy IV deserves his Complete Monster status. My main issues are he has next to no personality, and the possible shared continuity with FF2 might mean he has to contend with the far worse Emperor Mateus. What are your thoughts on the matter?

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    RRabbit42
    RRabbit42 closed this thread because:
    message from a returning vandal
    13:08, March 28, 2019
    • Well, we really don't know if FF2 and FF4 actually share continuity (especially when it's heavily implied that despite the numerics, each "sequel" is divorced from the previous game.).

      As far as Zemus, he did pretty much instigate all the problems for that game, and the other Lunar people found him abhorrent enough that they had to seal him away. Sure, maybe in the original game for the SNES and to a certain extent PSX version, you could argue that he had no personality, but he most certainly had a pretty defined personality in the DS remake, where he telekinetically assaults Theodor into becoming Golbez and tauntingly tells him he's nothing more than a fly from a poisoned womb, indicating he was very sadistic. I'd probably say he more than qualified as a Complete Monster (besides, to be fair, Mateus barely showed much personality in FFII when you get right down to it, if we're to use that argument.).

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    • I'm aware that most of the games are self-contained, but there are actual hints that 2 and 4 are in the same universe, namely in the form of Kain being implied to be the adopted son of Richard from 2. But at the same time I can see your point about Zemus having more personality in the DS remake. I'll add that bit of trivia to his entry.

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    • Fine by me. Personally, I always get irritated by the term "no personality" regarding a Complete Monster, or heck, anything.

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    • I see what you mean. After all there's only so much personality a character with no positive qualities can have, so it seems strange that lack thereof can be disqualifying.

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  • Scar was willing to let his entire pride starve to death, wasn't he?

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  • With all due respect I always thought he was a pretty typical mad scientist, though I won’t deny his short isn’t exactly what you would expect from a Mickey Mouse cartoon.

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    • Yeah, I know. And personally, I really think Maleficent, the 1959 version I mean, should have been included on the page, but unfortunately, they spoke out against it and banned me for a year even when I did give pretty sufficient reasons for why she qualified (and she most certainly isn't standard fare. Want standard fare? Try Team Rocket, Skeletor, and G1 Megatron who were all downright pathetic as characters. Or heck, Elmer Fudd as well.). I can understand Peter Griffin not qualifying due to largely being comedic and played as such, but Maleficent really doesn't have any real reason to be excluded.

      And honestly, I think that his being in a short that's darker than the norm is more than enough for him to qualify.

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  • If I'm not mistaken, the Nightmare's Labyrinth novelisation is clearly an Alternate Continuity. Aside from the fact that neither the original game or Dissidia make any mention of Mateus being possessed (and the prequel to that later features his light form as an alternate costume), the novel portrays Minwu as an old man (which doesn't seem to be the case in the game if his portrait] is any indication) and he survives in that version.

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    • I'm guessing we're supposed to assume that the deity in the world of FF2 isn't omnipotent, especially seeing how later FF games have featured gods that aren't all-powerful; Kefka (and he became one by absorbing the power of three gods), The Orrcuria, Bhunivelse, etc.

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    • Sam Prince wrote: I'm guessing we're supposed to assume that the deity in the world of FF2 isn't omnipotent, especially seeing how later FF games have featured gods that aren't all-powerful; Kefka (and he became one by absorbing the power of three gods), The Orrcuria, Bhunivelse, etc.

      Don't forget omniscient (though that being said, that seems to betray the purpose behind the afterlife, Mateus inhabiting both aspects).

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